123 notes
  

{x}

Soooo, I get all the Loki love. Hiddles is pretty and funny and Loki has good lines and looks great in green.

But here’s the thing, Loki (in the Marvel universe, at least, not nearly so much in the Norse myth) is a villain. An intensely sympathetic villain, a villain whose motivations are understandable, but he’s a villain. He’s a bad guy. His actions aren’t justifiable. 

He’s the prodigal son, who, instead of coming home, decided to destroy worlds. 

Odin loves him. He never told him about his heritage not because he wanted to keep secrets but because, well, unless he was open about it from the beginning (and he wasn’t, bad choice), that’s the kind of secret that breaks a man. As it does.

Loki may have wanted to earn his father’s love, and in Norse myth, messing shit up is a way to do that. But Loki’s solution not only puts his father in real danger, it’s genocidal—destroying not just a race, but a whole world. And, while admittedly the first stone in the new war is Thor’s fault, things could have remained not-war-y (not peaceful, they hate each other, but not in active war) if Odin and Thor and Loki worked to re-establish peace.

Odin is disappointed in Loki not because he’s just a bad old man (he’s not a great father, but still, not an awful father, and I think a lot of the Thor favoritism is more in Loki’s mind than anyone else’s) but because Odin took a chance to believe the Loki was better than his monstrous origins. That he was worthy of being second in line to the throne of Asgard. And rather than rise above, when he was given every chance too, Loki decided to re-see his life through the lens of an outsider, reinterpret everyone’s intentions, and succumb to the frost giant inside him. Not just succumb, but embrace that dark side, thinking force and power was all he needed to gain Odin’s approval, an approval he already had, until he squandered it.

Thor refused to give up on Loki. He loves him dearly. He still refuses to give up on Loki. They all mournedhis “death,” even after the havoc he caused, because as far as Odin and Thor and their friends were concerned, he was family. He was one of them.

This continues into The Avengers, where Thor refuses to fight Loki as long as he possibly can, tries to talk him back to Asgard. 

And in The Avengers, he really is a villain. There’s no question. He wants to subjugate worlds to his whims. He’s willing to kill and destroy and maim and tear apart to do so.

I like Loki as a character. I do feel sorry for him. He’s tragic and sympathetic and oh-so-pretty. He’s had some hard knocks and I can understand why he reacts the way he does. But he’s still a villain. Not to Godwin the situation, but, really, if we found out Hitler’s father favored his brother and then he found out he was adopted and so he took over Europe in an effort to prove he was worth, it wouldn’t make it okay. Not even if he was pretty.

I’m not telling people to hate Loki or to think he’s bad or that you can’t like him, BECAUSE I LIKE LOKI AND THINK HE’S SYMPATHETIC AND THE FODDER FOR A LOT OF GOOD JOKES but please, please, don’t pretend he’s justified, or that his actions aren’t evil. Especially in The Avengers.

1,266 notes
  

#I’m going to bawl like a baby when Eleven really DOES regenerate#Doctor Who#The Doctor (via gallifreyburning)

A thing that I think will help (or maybe make it worse):

Eleven won’t be like Ten, desperate to cling on to himself. Eleven hates himself. There was a brief moment of a fresh start, but by the end of series 5, not only must he deal with the pain of loss as Ten, he’s “ruined” Amy’s life, too. There’s a possibility of hope through the Big Bang, but once Series 6 happens it all happens again, and maybe worse, considering the outcome of the River puzzle. On top of it, Series 6 frequently referenced the losses of Ten—meaning he’s not moving on, he’s connected those losses and “mistakes” he continues to make. 

The Silence and everything. Amy and Rory’s promised “tragic” and “definite” exit. The burden is too heavy.

I hope that Eleven will find something that will bring him to life again. Maybe the new companion will be good for him. 

But I have a feeling, when the time comes, Eleven will be happy for a fresh start.

Whether that makes it better or worse? I don’t know.

1,697 notes
  

orbitingasupernova:

runrosetyler:

hopeforusallintheend:

trackerjacks:

 #Which is worse do you imagine? #Watching another you tell your soul mate that he’s in love with her #Or watching her grab him and kiss him and cling to him with the kind of passion you want so badly you can taste it? #My poor sad bb Ten

Just curious, some people seem to think Ten gave Rose a choice, between himself and lovely Meta-crisis, do you (Anyone who reblogs/see’s this) think he gave her a choice? 

ooc: I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that Rose is older now, more mature, grown up. She realized that it wasn’t about the traveling anymore, it was about the Doctor, this man that she loved for the rest of her life. I think Ten, also, sort of had more time to heal- not get over her per-say but learn to live without her. In a way there was a choice, but I think that the Doctor knew they would be best for the both of them.

Oh, I think he definitely gave her a choice, and she made her choice, EVEN IF HE WAS A DICK ABOUT ENFORCING IT.

Also, the Doctor definitely had learned to live a life without Rose, even if he didn’t want to. When he lost her and for a great amount of time afterwards, he was suicidal and reckless and angry—because he didn’t understand how he could be alive without her. But then I mean, he mourned her and he made friends, and the world became a little less terrible a place without her.

I think Martha helped so much. I think Donna and the Doctor were able to be so close because of Martha’s sacrifice—meaning, she was the martyr, the one who had to suffer and carry on while loving a man who didn’t love her that way, and when he realized that he had been unfair to her, it was too late. But he chose not to make those mistakes again, hence the glory of his friendship with Donna.

Oh look, it’s Cate, hitting it right on the nose. Again.

Though I may quibble a bit here— because it’s what I do. And maybe not so much quibbling as continuing the discussion.

I don’t know how conscious she was that she was making “the choice,” but she knows what kissing TenToo means. And I would argue that the one really giving her “the choice” is TenToo. I believe that a large part of why she chose TenToo is because he gave her so much power in the decision. From the start, he lets her take charge. He doesn’t touch her, lets her touch him. And of course, the “If you want.” He doesn’t speak his words until she asks him to, and then doesn’t kiss her—he lets her kiss him. “If you want” is his modus operandi. I think Rose gets this. 

Meanwhile, Ten gives her an out, but he’s rather pushy. Think about it, “He’s not you.” “He needs you, that’s very me.” (So much more to say about that line, but for now). I don’t think he could do much about it if Rose decided she was going with Ten, no questions asked. But he wanted to lead her in a particular direction. And he was kind of lame about enforcing it. But…there’s really no good way to enforce it, is there?

Because ultimately, he’s giving her a gift, too. It’s kind of like when Angel breaks it off with Buffy in season 3…Buffy believes she won’t care that they can’t have sex, that she’ll grow old and he’ll stay the same age, that he can’t ever go out in the day. And maybe she won’t. But Angel is older and a bit wiser (nothing to do with gender, he’s just literally seen a lot more of the world and how it works), and he knows poison in the well when he sees it. TenToo is a way for Ten to live a life he wants and give Rose a life she wants. We all know, as human beings, YES IT FUCKING NEEDED SAYING. As a Time Lord, the Doctor can’t just give it all up and be with Rose. And if he told her he loved her, and she kissed him…he could never leave her. The Human Doctor, TenToo, he can. He can give himself to Rose, fully, while still remembering what it was like when he couldn’t. And part of that very knowledge is now he’s human, so the game changes: it does need saying, he can’t help but say it, he was MADE to say it—but the choice is up to her.

The layers of tragedy and elation in this scene are just startling. So brilliantly done. It’s interesting to read RTD’s thoughts as he was writing the scene, the way he struggled with it and how it changed. And what he ended up with—just gorgeous. Because that’s life, folks, right? Difficult choices that are both incredibly happy and heartbreaking. Hope for the future and a sense of loss for the past.

Which brings me to a final point:

What he really should have learned is that with RTD at the helm, all good things die.

He is lord of angst, but I think it’s fairer to say RTD understands all things die.  Time passes, things are lost and found. An immortal life is so painful because all it sees are the losses. But in a single human lifespan, there’s a balance. The potential of death, its inevitably, give each moment meaning.

There’s a song by David Bazan/Pedro the Lion, called “Rejoice.” It’s the closing song of an album called Control. It goes a little something like this:

Wouldn’t it be so wonderful if everything were meaningless
But everything is so meaningful
And most everything turns to shit
Rejoice, Rejoice, Rejoice.

See, what I love about this, as strangely nihilistic as it is, is that it also impresses upon us that we find meaning because things change and break and die. Meaninglessness is easy, to disconnect, to refuse. But because all of us are always looking for some kind of meaning, we’re cursed. But, at the same time, the ugly, painful, dark things in life become beautiful because they give the good things meaning.

AND THIS, my friends, is my number one problem with Moffat as a storyteller (not just the political implications of his representations of women and PoCs). He’s too stuck on the happy ending, on “Everybody Lives.” When everybody always lives, when everything always turns out okay, joy loses its pop. Beauty dims. It’s the good and the bad, beginnings and endings, life and death, pain and hope, all tied up in knots—that gives us meaning.

536 notes
  

doctor who meme: six companions

Martha Jones [2/6]

“She saved the world.”

Back from the con!

STORY TIME:

When we were dressed up as Doctor and Rose it was a lot of fun. One very excitable girl stopped us and was telling us she loved our costumes and she loved Rose. And then she said, “But I hate Martha, she’s so whiny and selfish and ooh, Doctor, love me.”

Gentle readers, let me assure you,

ME AS ROSE TYLER WENT BAD WOLF AT THAT.

I remained nice and polite, but my hackles raised…probably visibly. I told this young woman that Martha Jones was a star. That Rose liked Martha, so there was no reason to for competition. I asked her to imagine you were with a guy you liked and he was flirty but then he’d go whining about some girl and you had no idea what happened. All the while, you’re smart and funny and hot as shit. I know I wouldn’t be anywhere near as composed as she was. All the meanwhile Shaun as Doctor was nodding and saying he loved Martha, too. The young lady was shrugged and didn’t seem convinced, saying, “Maybe, but she’s no Rose, you know.” I shrugged and said, “Of course, but there’s room for both.” She went on a bit more about the Doctor and Rose and then we parted ways (it was very busy and staying in one place very long was not entirely feasible)

Oh well. Hopefully the least I did was let an otherwise sweet young lady know that even Rose Tyler and the Doctor on the con room floor won’t truck with Martha hate. And maybe, just maybe, she’ll think before hating on Martha Jones, the one who walked the earth and saved it single-handedly, without the Doctor’s help.

The one who loved him at his most unloveable, who forgave him when he wouldn’t even admit he was wrong. The one who left on her own terms and called HIM back. Who refused to be a spare. Martha Jones, you’re a star, you’re a star, you’re a star.

157 notes
  
kilodalton: whoniverseconfessions: ‘I wish Rose had never come back after Doomsday. The episode was a great, heart-wrenching end for her. Bringing her back in Series 4 made that ending worthless. What’s worse is that she was also never given the chance to just get over losing the Doctor and move on with her life, which would have made her a lot stronger as a person. Instead, she had just continued to pine over him. And the maturity she would have shown in having to move on was destroyed by giving her her own Doctor clone.’ Why should she “have to” move on? The thing about the OP - and people who say things like this, in general - is that they really seem to want to act like Rose was just another companion. Therefore, she should ACT like “just another companion” and move on with her life - just like any other insert-companion-here would do. Problem is - she was written to be the love of Ten’s life. And vice-versa. Ten’s entire arc was tied up in Rose, and her entire arc was tied up in him. They were created (and written) to “complete” each other - that’s a direct quote from Davies. A love like that, you don’t “move on” from: it inspires you, sets the fire under you, “makes you better,” “keeps you fighting” — and that’s the relationship that Ten and Rose had. So when the OP says they wish that Rose “had to” move on, what they are really saying is that they wish Ten/Rose weren’t a canon love story. Or that they wish it was an unrequited one like Ten/Martha. Or even that it’s one where one seems to distrust/dislike the other half the time, and you’ll never see them missing the other one, like Eleven/River. Trouble is — it wasn’t any of those things. Which is why it’s such an epic ship to begin with. Ugh, whoniverseconfessions have some more Rose hate—I mean honest confessions—again. I’m not even gonna get started on the horrible misreading of TenToo/Journey’s End.  But there is something i’d like to add The other thing that bothers me is this: while I don’t think anyone needs anyone else to complete them—it’s maybe not the best basis for a relationship, it’s better when you compliment, when the sum of the two (or more) of you is greater than its parts—I also think it’s unfair to characterize people who fight for their relationship as somehow needy or wrongheaded. There’s nothing inherently immature about loving someone enough you’re willing to fight for them. Sometimes it’s important just to “get over” something or someone. Sometimes, like when the universe unfairly rips things away or when there’s something you can do about it, it’s equally important to not just “get over it.” Pining implies passivity—just sitting there being sad. That’s not Rose. She did move on—her life was productive, she got there after all—but she also fought for what mattered. And for her, that’s what she has with the Doctor.  Also her smirk in this screencap is probably in response to stupid-ass confessors.

kilodalton:

whoniverseconfessions:

‘I wish Rose had never come back after Doomsday. The episode was a great, heart-wrenching end for her. Bringing her back in Series 4 made that ending worthless. What’s worse is that she was also never given the chance to just get over losing the Doctor and move on with her life, which would have made her a lot stronger as a person. Instead, she had just continued to pine over him. And the maturity she would have shown in having to move on was destroyed by giving her her own Doctor clone.’


Why should she “have to” move on? The thing about the OP - and people who say things like this, in general - is that they really seem to want to act like Rose was just another companion. Therefore, she should ACT like “just another companion” and move on with her life - just like any other insert-companion-here would do.

Problem is - she was written to be the love of Ten’s life. And vice-versa. Ten’s entire arc was tied up in Rose, and her entire arc was tied up in him. They were created (and written) to “complete” each other - that’s a direct quote from Davies. A love like that, you don’t “move on” from: it inspires you, sets the fire under you, “makes you better,” “keeps you fighting” — and that’s the relationship that Ten and Rose had.

So when the OP says they wish that Rose “had to” move on, what they are really saying is that they wish Ten/Rose weren’t a canon love story. Or that they wish it was an unrequited one like Ten/Martha. Or even that it’s one where one seems to distrust/dislike the other half the time, and you’ll never see them missing the other one, like Eleven/River.

Trouble is — it wasn’t any of those things. Which is why it’s such an epic ship to begin with.

Ugh, whoniverseconfessions have some more Rose hate—I mean honest confessions—again. I’m not even gonna get started on the horrible misreading of TenToo/Journey’s End. 

But there is something i’d like to add

The other thing that bothers me is this: while I don’t think anyone needs anyone else to complete them—it’s maybe not the best basis for a relationship, it’s better when you compliment, when the sum of the two (or more) of you is greater than its parts—I also think it’s unfair to characterize people who fight for their relationship as somehow needy or wrongheaded. There’s nothing inherently immature about loving someone enough you’re willing to fight for them.

Sometimes it’s important just to “get over” something or someone. Sometimes, like when the universe unfairly rips things away or when there’s something you can do about it, it’s equally important to not just “get over it.” Pining implies passivity—just sitting there being sad. That’s not Rose. She did move on—her life was productive, she got there after all—but she also fought for what mattered. And for her, that’s what she has with the Doctor. 

Also her smirk in this screencap is probably in response to stupid-ass confessors.

232 notes
  
thomaslevitt: I’ve been coming across more and more Doctor Who fans who tend to refer to The Doctor as “the actual Doctor”, while dismissing TenToo (a.k.a. “Handy”, “Blue”, “10.5”, etc.) as a cheap copy. I just don’t understand why. I mean, I am willing to admit that everyone is entitled to an opinion, and if you don’t like TenToo for whatever reason, that’s perfectly fine. However, writing off a character with a canonical personality is just insulting to the creators and writers. The evidence that both The Doctor and TenToo are the “actual” Doctors is right in the “Journey’s End” script: The Doctor: But you’ve got to, because we saved the universe, but at a cost, and the cost is him. He destroyed the Daleks, he committed genocide, he’s too dangerous to be left on his own. New Doctor: You made me. The Doctor: Exactly. You were born in battle, full of blood and anger and revenge. Remind you of someone? That’s me when we first met, and you made me better. Now you can do the same for him. Rose: But he’s not you. The Doctor: He needs you, that’s very me. Donna: But it’s better than that though. Don’t you see what he’s trying to give you? Tell her, go on. New Doctor: I look like him, I think like him, same memory, same thoughts, same everything—except I’ve only got one heart. Rose: Which means? New Doctor: I’m part human. Specifically the aging part, I’ll grow old and never regenerate. I’ve only got one life, Rose Tyler. I could spend it with you, if you want. Rose: [in disbelief] You’ll grow old at the same time as me. New Doctor: Together. They are the same man. Their only difference is the single heart that will allow TenToo to grow old with Rose. After that, they are identical, from looks to memories to personalities. Also, it seems to me that most of the people who dismiss TenToo do so because they so strongly ship Ten/Rose. I can completely understand that. However, if you’re that person, please take a moment and think: you must believe that Ten loves Rose more than anything. That he would do anything for her. Would he really leave her with a cheap knock-off of himself? Or would he make sure that the person he’s leaving her with, the Doctor that she can live with and love and grow with - and who can do all those things for her - is him, in every possible and conceivable way? The Doctor loves Rose Tyler, but he could never be with her the way she wanted - and yes, even the way he wanted. So he gives her a part of himself. He gives her, essentially, the part of himself that he has to keep locked away in order to survive near-immortality. TenToo is not a copy, or a failed experiment. TenToo is The Doctor; he is his heart, his love, his humanity. And Rose Tyler belongs with him. What I love most about this scene is how messy it is. It’s happy and sad and fell of hope and full of regrets and a happy ending where nothing is secure and all the answers are given but nothing is fixed. The impact of the scene is that there are literally too many feelings. And so, when we look at Rose’s line, “He’s not you,” probably the most contentious line for how folks respond to TenToo, we have to keep this in mind. We also have to keep in mind that TenToo literally is not Ten. There are two bodies. That means two people. And technically, from the moment he grows from that hand, there are different memories, so…different. And yet, he literally IS the same man. We are not defined by our decisions over two hours, but by our lifetime of decisions and characteristics. For TenToo, that’s the same. Rose loved the Doctor before his hand got cut off, she loved him when she saw him in the street. Wherever you choose to cut off TenToo’s memories (regeneration energy necessarily contains memories or the process wouldn’t work, so I cut it off at “regeneration” post-cockblocking Dalek, personally). It won’t be easy. Rose loved Nine’s daft old face, and it took some time to adjust to the fact that Ten was the same man, different face. TenToo sharing the same face—being forced to confront his difference and his sameness—makes it both easier and harder for our Ms. Tyler. I think she’s aware of this, too. She makes to choice, in the end. She chooses to accept Ten’s gift of himself, even if it means losing him. When she kisses TenToo, I don’t think it’s to spite Ten. He knows this—he looks sad, crushed even, but not angry. Rose is confused by the whole thing, but she also gets the stakes (especially when she finds out he’ll age with her). For someone as confused and dealing with a serious sudden mess to deal with as the script rightfully makes her out to be, the kiss seems very definitive. She might not be as certain as the kiss makes her out to be…but she needs to let both Doctors know. That she wasn’t just going to let the Doctor go right away. That she has a stake in this decision. That “I Love You” was what she needed to hear. What that meant for her. That she accepts TenToo IS the Doctor. That she gave Ten the chance to do it himself if he had any doubts. And when Ten leaves, she chases. But she stops and takes TenToo’s hand. Rubs his hand with her thumb (connected, physical, comfortable). Sad, happy. Hope, loss. Brokenhearted and whole again. Easy, complicated. A whole future ahead of them both, and they’re ready to take it all on. And I’m sure Jackie will have something to say about heir experience, too.

thomaslevitt:

I’ve been coming across more and more Doctor Who fans who tend to refer to The Doctor as “the actual Doctor”, while dismissing TenToo (a.k.a. “Handy”, “Blue”, “10.5”, etc.) as a cheap copy. I just don’t understand why.

I mean, I am willing to admit that everyone is entitled to an opinion, and if you don’t like TenToo for whatever reason, that’s perfectly fine. However, writing off a character with a canonical personality is just insulting to the creators and writers.

The evidence that both The Doctor and TenToo are the “actual” Doctors is right in the “Journey’s End” script:

The Doctor: But you’ve got to, because we saved the universe, but at a cost, and the cost is him. He destroyed the Daleks, he committed genocide, he’s too dangerous to be left on his own.

New Doctor: You made me.

The Doctor: Exactly. You were born in battle, full of blood and anger and revenge. Remind you of someone? That’s me when we first met, and you made me better. Now you can do the same for him.

Rose: But he’s not you.

The Doctor: He needs you, that’s very me.

Donna: But it’s better than that though. Don’t you see what he’s trying to give you? Tell her, go on.

New Doctor: I look like him, I think like him, same memory, same thoughts, same everything—except I’ve only got one heart.

Rose: Which means?

New Doctor: I’m part human. Specifically the aging part, I’ll grow old and never regenerate. I’ve only got one life, Rose Tyler. I could spend it with you, if you want.

Rose: [in disbelief] You’ll grow old at the same time as me.

New Doctor: Together.

They are the same man. Their only difference is the single heart that will allow TenToo to grow old with Rose. After that, they are identical, from looks to memories to personalities.

Also, it seems to me that most of the people who dismiss TenToo do so because they so strongly ship Ten/Rose. I can completely understand that. However, if you’re that person, please take a moment and think: you must believe that Ten loves Rose more than anything. That he would do anything for her.

Would he really leave her with a cheap knock-off of himself? Or would he make sure that the person he’s leaving her with, the Doctor that she can live with and love and grow with - and who can do all those things for her - is him, in every possible and conceivable way?

The Doctor loves Rose Tyler, but he could never be with her the way she wanted - and yes, even the way he wanted. So he gives her a part of himself. He gives her, essentially, the part of himself that he has to keep locked away in order to survive near-immortality.

TenToo is not a copy, or a failed experiment.

TenToo is The Doctor; he is his heart, his love, his humanity.

And Rose Tyler belongs with him.



What I love most about this scene is how messy it is. It’s happy and sad and fell of hope and full of regrets and a happy ending where nothing is secure and all the answers are given but nothing is fixed. The impact of the scene is that there are literally too many feelings.

And so, when we look at Rose’s line, “He’s not you,” probably the most contentious line for how folks respond to TenToo, we have to keep this in mind.

We also have to keep in mind that TenToo literally is not Ten. There are two bodies. That means two people. And technically, from the moment he grows from that hand, there are different memories, so…different. And yet, he literally IS the same man. We are not defined by our decisions over two hours, but by our lifetime of decisions and characteristics. For TenToo, that’s the same. Rose loved the Doctor before his hand got cut off, she loved him when she saw him in the street. Wherever you choose to cut off TenToo’s memories (regeneration energy necessarily contains memories or the process wouldn’t work, so I cut it off at “regeneration” post-cockblocking Dalek, personally). It won’t be easy. Rose loved Nine’s daft old face, and it took some time to adjust to the fact that Ten was the same man, different face. TenToo sharing the same face—being forced to confront his difference and his sameness—makes it both easier and harder for our Ms. Tyler.

I think she’s aware of this, too. She makes to choice, in the end. She chooses to accept Ten’s gift of himself, even if it means losing him. When she kisses TenToo, I don’t think it’s to spite Ten. He knows this—he looks sad, crushed even, but not angry. Rose is confused by the whole thing, but she also gets the stakes (especially when she finds out he’ll age with her). For someone as confused and dealing with a serious sudden mess to deal with as the script rightfully makes her out to be, the kiss seems very definitive. She might not be as certain as the kiss makes her out to be…but she needs to let both Doctors know. That she wasn’t just going to let the Doctor go right away. That she has a stake in this decision. That “I Love You” was what she needed to hear. What that meant for her. That she accepts TenToo IS the Doctor. That she gave Ten the chance to do it himself if he had any doubts.

And when Ten leaves, she chases. But she stops and takes TenToo’s hand. Rubs his hand with her thumb (connected, physical, comfortable).

Sad, happy. Hope, loss. Brokenhearted and whole again. Easy, complicated. A whole future ahead of them both, and they’re ready to take it all on.

And I’m sure Jackie will have something to say about heir experience, too.
451 notes
  

cyruspotnoodle:

nerdyhbic:

It’s scenes like this one that made me hate Ten as the Doctor enough to want to grab him through my TV screen to smack down his whiny emo douchebag ass for treating Martha like he did.

Fucked up bonus: By making him this way, RTD made a very problematic, race-based compare/contrast between Martha and Rose. Martha being the poor woman of color who try as she might, could never measure up to the Doctor’s Great White Hope(Rose).

That would be true, if:

  1. Martha were not in a higher class than Rose was
  2. Martha’s arc didn’t end in her walking the world and realizing her own self worth, without the Doctor
  3. Martha was intended to be a sympathetic character—it’s important to look at the framing of these things, and RTD DID NOT intend to make Martha seem less than Rose—fandom did that because they took their grief at Billie’s departure and the Doctor’s words as fact.

I do think that there is a weird racialist thing here, but S3 covers race issues a bit anyway, always framing Martha sympathetically. It’s unfortunate that fandom tainted our perception of the actual point.

Completely agreeing with the points above.

I also think it’s important to remember that while racism exists in Britain, it functions rather differently—including the black/white divide is rather different in England than it is here in the States. (From what I understand, more race problems bubble up from recent immigrants—African, Indian/Pakistani, and Eastern European—than from white English versus black English; among the many reasons slavery has been abolished twice at long in England as it has been in the US) (Please correct me if I’m wrong)

I do find it interesting how often Americans tend to assume race works the same everywhere in the world as it does here. For example, South America or Japan, where black/white racism happens but in very different contexts…and many other race categories are more contentious and violent…sometimes in between racial differences Americans can barely see (like racism against Koreans and Chinese in Japan or against indigenous people or “mestizos” and creoles in South America).

Of course, it’s better that folks are thinking about race at all. But it would be nice for Americans to remember there’s a whole world out there, especially in the context of a show from another society.

Also, while out of context this scene seems douchebaggy, it is douchely honest, and that’s a general Doctor character flaw, not one specifically targeted at Martha (it tends to be seen as flirting or cute when he does it with Rose, but he does do it with Rose).

Finally, I think Martha knows what she’s saying is wrong here, but she’s grasping for some returned affection. First, she was there when the Hame told the Doctor that Face was going to share a “final secret” and I think Martha knows such a literal interpretation is probably not what the Face of Boe meant. Look at her face in panels four and five. After these lines, she says, “Till you talk to me properly, yes. He said ‘last of your kind.’ What does that mean?” Which again indicates to me that she understood the Face of Boe meant something more than just a literal interpretation of “You are not Alone.”

One of my biggest pet peeves is people turning Series Three into a DOCTOR VS. MARTHA battle. Either Martha is whiny and clingy and needy or the Doctor is a total jerk who needs to be strangled. While I’m more sympathetic to those who read the Doctor as a jerk than I am against the Martha-haters (they’re just wrong), I find that the Doctor-haters tend to take it too far as well. Remember, the Doctor is in some serious pain, and while that doesn’t excuse him, it’s foolish to think he’d should just get over it.

I want more even-handed and calmer discussions of Series Three (particularly regarding the Doctor and Martha’s relationship) that don’t devolve into hate-fests. Not that the Doctor isn’t wrong in a lot of cases, but I don’t think S3!Doctor hate vindicates Martha or helps the case of those of us who want to battle the Martha hate.

On a final note: OP, I’m curious how you can ship Ten/Martha if you feel the way you do above. It seems like a rather frustrating existence! ;)

412 notes
  
gallifreyburning: winterinthetardis:  #thats a good fucking question #i would ask that question often #and angrily #instead of just being like ‘oh you didn’t find her?’ #’lolol that sucks off to the next adventure who gives a shit ABOUT MY CHILD’ #’APPARENTLY MY OLD CHILD EVER WHO I NEVER GET RETURNED TO ME UNTIL SHE IS AN ADULT AND OLDER THAN I AM’ #WTF GUYS #REALLY #I WOULD BE A LITTLE FUCKING FURIOUS AT THIS POINT #NOT LIKE OH WHATEVS LETS GO FUCKING CHILLAX WITH HITLER AND GO TO FUN PARADISE LOCATIONS #TROLOLOL FUCK KIDS MAN DIAPERS SUCK ANYWAY It stuns me that Moffat is actually a parent in real life, and he didn’t think through the emotional ramifications of this storyline. Obviously he was so focused on the I’m-going-to-blow-your-mind wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimeyness of his plot, he forgot to give Amy and Rory very many genuine emotions as parents. There were a few snippets — Amy killing Kovarian at the end of TWoRS. But not enough for it to feel authentic or believable. THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS Also, This. Were it not for “The Wedding of River Song,” which I thought was narratively a big steaming pile of loose ends lazily tied together in a particularly unspectacular prestidigitation that Moffat thought was awesome even though we all saw the cards sticking out of his sleeve (how many metaphors can I mix? I’ll just keep adding them, it’s the Moffat school), this simple fact bothered me more than any other. Sure, I was a bit troubled by the “Incubator” storyline which yanked away Amy’s agency. But overall, I thought this series was really going somewhere. Because, even before we find out she didn’t actually kill the Doctor, Melody does not “end up okay.” That seems to me the implication of the Doctor’s line in the beginning of “Let’s Kill Hitler”—no, I haven’t found her yet, but she’s gonna end up River Song so that’s okay, right? NO. That’s their baby, their daughter. And sure, River is badass and cool, but she got that way because she was kidnapped and brainwashed and had a lot of her life choices taken from her when she was just days old. I can’t imagine any parent thinking that, well, as long as my baby ends up badass, I guess it’s okay that she was stolen from me by a psychopathic eyepatch cult lady. I’ve heard the argument that Amy and Rory didn’t really know they were pregnant, and didn’t really have the time to bond with the baby, so that’s why they’re more hands off. This might make sense except that “A Good Man Goes to War” shows two parents instantly and completely head over heels for their little girl, confusing circumstances of her birth or not. They both are, already, willing to kill and die for her. And then we had that preview clip where Amy leaves the message for the Doctor—that also shows she’s NOT OKAY with losing Melody. What I expected to happen by season’s end is that the Doctor would find Baby Melody. This would necessarily create a paradox where River could no longer exist—but I thought that might be the reason we have the constant refrain “Time can be rewritten,” especially around River. It would be tragic—Amy and Rory like River and they know she’s their daughter; certainly the Doctor cares for River (though I don’t buy he’s in love with her yet). It might really mess up some timelines, but Amy reset the whole world so I don’t think it would necessarily have to effect anything that came before The Big Bang II. (Also, I don’t think the Library is an important part in the Doctor’s timeline. If River wasn’t around she wouldn’t have sent him the message which means he and Donna wouldn’t have gone to the Library in the first place…which ultimately wouldn’t change the storyline) But Moffat doesn’t like tragedy. I was SO HAPPY for Nine in “The Doctor Dances” when everybody got to live. But there’s a strange thing that happens in the rest of Moffat’s big stories…everybody lives. Always. To me, this cheapens the story so much. It’s not that you need to have tragedy to make an effective story. However, when difficult, world-altering decisions need to be made, they lose their “oomph” if there are just never any consequences for those decisions. They aren’t really so difficult after all. So rather than deal with Rory’s death, Amy gets to forget it. And then Rory isn’t really dead after all (by some “miracle”). And then the whole finale nonsense (which I have already discussed at length here). And, Rory and Amy have to be somehow okay with what should be one of the most devastating tragedies of their lives. So they are. I kept waiting for the turnaround, for Amy or Rory to crack (I thought it might happen in “the God Complex,” but no). No difficult decision in the finale. River doesn’t have to die and neither does the Doctor! YAY. Except not yay, because Amy and Rory have to live without their baby. Well, they can live with her, sort of, whenever she decides to break out of a prison she’s in for a crime she didn’t actually commit and swings by to spend a few hours with them. ‘Cause that makes up for losing your baby. Now I am ranting bitterly instead of trying to be a bit more objective and reasoned, so I will bow out. But…

gallifreyburning:

winterinthetardis:

 #thats a good fucking question #i would ask that question often #and angrily #instead of just being like ‘oh you didn’t find her?’ #’lolol that sucks off to the next adventure who gives a shit ABOUT MY CHILD’ #’APPARENTLY MY OLD CHILD EVER WHO I NEVER GET RETURNED TO ME UNTIL SHE IS AN ADULT AND OLDER THAN I AM’ #WTF GUYS #REALLY #I WOULD BE A LITTLE FUCKING FURIOUS AT THIS POINT #NOT LIKE OH WHATEVS LETS GO FUCKING CHILLAX WITH HITLER AND GO TO FUN PARADISE LOCATIONS #TROLOLOL FUCK KIDS MAN DIAPERS SUCK ANYWAY

It stuns me that Moffat is actually a parent in real life, and he didn’t think through the emotional ramifications of this storyline. Obviously he was so focused on the I’m-going-to-blow-your-mind wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimeyness of his plot, he forgot to give Amy and Rory very many genuine emotions as parents. There were a few snippets — Amy killing Kovarian at the end of TWoRS. But not enough for it to feel authentic or believable.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

Also, This.

Were it not for “The Wedding of River Song,” which I thought was narratively a big steaming pile of loose ends lazily tied together in a particularly unspectacular prestidigitation that Moffat thought was awesome even though we all saw the cards sticking out of his sleeve (how many metaphors can I mix? I’ll just keep adding them, it’s the Moffat school), this simple fact bothered me more than any other. Sure, I was a bit troubled by the “Incubator” storyline which yanked away Amy’s agency. But overall, I thought this series was really going somewhere.

Because, even before we find out she didn’t actually kill the Doctor, Melody does not “end up okay.” That seems to me the implication of the Doctor’s line in the beginning of “Let’s Kill Hitler”—no, I haven’t found her yet, but she’s gonna end up River Song so that’s okay, right? NO. That’s their baby, their daughter. And sure, River is badass and cool, but she got that way because she was kidnapped and brainwashed and had a lot of her life choices taken from her when she was just days old. I can’t imagine any parent thinking that, well, as long as my baby ends up badass, I guess it’s okay that she was stolen from me by a psychopathic eyepatch cult lady.

I’ve heard the argument that Amy and Rory didn’t really know they were pregnant, and didn’t really have the time to bond with the baby, so that’s why they’re more hands off. This might make sense except that “A Good Man Goes to War” shows two parents instantly and completely head over heels for their little girl, confusing circumstances of her birth or not. They both are, already, willing to kill and die for her. And then we had that preview clip where Amy leaves the message for the Doctor—that also shows she’s NOT OKAY with losing Melody.

What I expected to happen by season’s end is that the Doctor would find Baby Melody. This would necessarily create a paradox where River could no longer exist—but I thought that might be the reason we have the constant refrain “Time can be rewritten,” especially around River. It would be tragic—Amy and Rory like River and they know she’s their daughter; certainly the Doctor cares for River (though I don’t buy he’s in love with her yet). It might really mess up some timelines, but Amy reset the whole world so I don’t think it would necessarily have to effect anything that came before The Big Bang II. (Also, I don’t think the Library is an important part in the Doctor’s timeline. If River wasn’t around she wouldn’t have sent him the message which means he and Donna wouldn’t have gone to the Library in the first place…which ultimately wouldn’t change the storyline)

But Moffat doesn’t like tragedy. I was SO HAPPY for Nine in “The Doctor Dances” when everybody got to live. But there’s a strange thing that happens in the rest of Moffat’s big stories…everybody lives. Always. To me, this cheapens the story so much. It’s not that you need to have tragedy to make an effective story. However, when difficult, world-altering decisions need to be made, they lose their “oomph” if there are just never any consequences for those decisions. They aren’t really so difficult after all. So rather than deal with Rory’s death, Amy gets to forget it. And then Rory isn’t really dead after all (by some “miracle”). And then the whole finale nonsense (which I have already discussed at length here). And, Rory and Amy have to be somehow okay with what should be one of the most devastating tragedies of their lives. So they are.

I kept waiting for the turnaround, for Amy or Rory to crack (I thought it might happen in “the God Complex,” but no). No difficult decision in the finale. River doesn’t have to die and neither does the Doctor! YAY. Except not yay, because Amy and Rory have to live without their baby. Well, they can live with her, sort of, whenever she decides to break out of a prison she’s in for a crime she didn’t actually commit and swings by to spend a few hours with them. ‘Cause that makes up for losing your baby.

Now I am ranting bitterly instead of trying to be a bit more objective and reasoned, so I will bow out. But…

51 notes
  
sharonedolls: whoniverseconfessions: ‘The way Amy treated Rory and the way Rose treated Mickey are NOT the same thing. Mickey and Rose were dating, sure, but if you pay attention you can see even in the beginning that Mickey was way more into Rose then she ever was into him. He’d just always been there and it was comforting to have him around. Amy and Rory, though? I believe she loves him but she is really selfish. He deserves better.’ Okay first off just because she wasn’t ‘into him’ DOES NOT excuse Rose for treating Mickey the way she did. Even if she was never deeply interested in him romantically he deserved to be treated with respect some she NEVER gave him.  Amy may be selfish but I think the ‘Doctor’s Wife’ showed us that she is very aware of everything she’s done thats hurt Rory and at least feels guilty about it. Amy has grown and has become that ‘better’ that Rory deserves.(though really worth/deserving has no place in a deeply loving committed relationship) Rose has NEVER shown any remorse for how she treated Mickey. Hell even the doctor regretted how he ended up treating Martha. UGH. No for so many reasons. Look, I’m not saying that Rose is flawless, or that her relationship with Mickey was ideal. However, I don’t think the situations are even vaguely comparable. I agree with the OP’s first point (which I will elaborate below the cut), but not their conclusion I love Mickey. I was never one of those people who hated him and then only later thought he was okay. I thought he was charming from the beginning. BUT I also thought he was a doofus. As far as I see it, they’re two broken people in a broken relationship from the very beginning. What kind of “respect” did he deserve from Rose, exactly? In the first episode we see someone who is equally begrudging of Rose’s interest in the mysterious guy who saved her life…slightly more annoyed by it than thankful himself. He’s afraid of everything, and supremely, if understandably selfish. Even when she saves them both in the end, he’s more annoyed she didn’t just run than save the Doctor, and, by extension, the whole damn city. He doesn’t fight for her, not really. She kisses him on the cheek, not on the mouth; nor does he try to kiss her then—which again, to me shows the perfunctory nature of their relationship. The relationship takes a bit of a tragic turn in “Aliens in London,” in that he was blamed for her disappearance. By that time, he’s had a year without her to realize how important she actually was to him. For Rose, their relationship is exactly where it was in “Rose.” That is, fundamentally broken. I don’t think any discussion of the Mickey/Rose relationship can ignore this very important shift in how they understand each other. I’ve always had the impression their relationship was one of convenience more than one of any deep passion. They were best friends for years, literally since birth. They love each other very much, and for two single people it’s difficult not to translate that into some sort of romantic relationship. That doesn’t mean any sort of betrayal is forgivable, but I don’t think it’s anywhere near comparable to the Amy/Rory relationship bit, which I’ll get into a bit. Even at the “End of World War Three,” Mickey doesn’t fight for Rose. The Doctor invites him along and he declines. He’s more worried Rose will see him as a coward than fighting for their relationship. As far as I’m concerned, they break up in Boomtown. They try to give it another go, but it’s obvious in this case that Rose has moved on. Mickey is angry and hurt, and he’s right to be angry and hurt, but his decision not to go after her shows me that he’s also done. It’s also important to me that, though it’s clear that Rose is in love with the Doctor at this point, she hasn’t tried to initiate a relationship. Even Mickey was trying to date other people. in addition, I don’t know how her seriously subdued demeanor after she tries to find Mickey after the big earthquake thing doesn’t display some remorse on her part? Not to mention she actually apologizes to him several times in this episode. Now, as I said, I’m convinced they break up in Boomtown, and I read this into all their interactions in Series Two. The complicated thing between them is that they love each other very much, as friends and even practically as family, but they are no longer in love with each other. That’s a really difficult relationship to navigate, and I can completely understand why Rose tries to tell the Doctor not to bring Mickey along in School Reunion (I also get why the Doctor pushes to bring him along, but that’s another post). Once Mickey’s with the Doctor and Rose, what does he do? He challenges the Doctor about Rose. In “Rise of the Cybermen” he literally challenges the Doctor about not making a move on Rose. It’s not a challenge about who loves Rose more, because he’s going off to do his own thing. He’s challenging the Doctor to admit how he feels about Rose is different than any of his other companions. When he leaves at the end of “Age of Steel,” then and only then does Rose really realize what Mickey realized in “Aliens in London;” just how huge a part of her life Mickey is. And it tears her up. So how is that not remorse? But in the end, both she and Mickey know where she belongs now. And by the time Rose would have been able to show some remorse, Mickey was gone. It’s better for Mickey, too. Without using Rose as a crutch, a symbol of the unremarkable but easy life he could have had, Mickey unlocks his true potential. There was a hero hiding under there, he was just too afraid and comfortable to see it. So, here’s the difference then: Rory and Amy were engaged when Amy made her move on the Doctor. She actively, physically seduces him without Rory having any idea that she’s even with the Doctor. Does Amy eventually grow up? Yes. But it literally takes him dying for her to even make up her mind—because in “Vampires in Venice” she’s still very strangely on the fence about Rory, and not particularly sympathetic to the jealousy and anger and betrayal he feels. So, yes, in the end I think Rose and Mickey’s relationship was broken, but I don’t think that Rose betrayed Mickey. I DO think that Amy betrayed Rory. Understandable cold feet before the wedding? Perhaps. But in “The Eleventh Hour” she doesn’t even seem particularly head over heels for him, she barely wants to admit he’s her boyfriend. However, I also think Rory had a lot of growing up to do in S5, not that that makes it okay to be cheated on. I do think she loved him, but I don’t even think she realized how much she loved him until she lost him…which is what makes the fact that she was going to marry him a bit troubling in the beginning. I also don’t think it helps that the writers kept playing the “Amy sounds like she’s admitting she’s in love with the Doctor but wait it’s really RORY LOLOL” thing over and over again even into S6. Anyway. That’s that. And I also don’t know how either of these relationships have anything to do with the Doctor and Martha. While theirs was a troubled relationship, the circumstances were very different from the “established comfortable relationship breaking down” theme which M/R and R/A played on. In short, Rose wasn’t perfect but I thought the Mickey/Rose breakdown was shown as difficult and realistic and I don’t believe it had any of the aspects of cheating/betrayal the early Rory/Amy story does.

sharonedolls:

whoniverseconfessions:

‘The way Amy treated Rory and the way Rose treated Mickey are NOT the same thing. Mickey and Rose were dating, sure, but if you pay attention you can see even in the beginning that Mickey was way more into Rose then she ever was into him. He’d just always been there and it was comforting to have him around. Amy and Rory, though? I believe she loves him but she is really selfish. He deserves better.’

Okay first off just because she wasn’t ‘into him’ DOES NOT excuse Rose for treating Mickey the way she did. Even if she was never deeply interested in him romantically he deserved to be treated with respect some she NEVER gave him. 

Amy may be selfish but I think the ‘Doctor’s Wife’ showed us that she is very aware of everything she’s done thats hurt Rory and at least feels guilty about it. Amy has grown and has become that ‘better’ that Rory deserves.(though really worth/deserving has no place in a deeply loving committed relationship) Rose has NEVER shown any remorse for how she treated Mickey. Hell even the doctor regretted how he ended up treating Martha.

UGH. No for so many reasons.

Look, I’m not saying that Rose is flawless, or that her relationship with Mickey was ideal. However, I don’t think the situations are even vaguely comparable. I agree with the OP’s first point (which I will elaborate below the cut), but not their conclusion

I love Mickey. I was never one of those people who hated him and then only later thought he was okay. I thought he was charming from the beginning. BUT I also thought he was a doofus. As far as I see it, they’re two broken people in a broken relationship from the very beginning.

What kind of “respect” did he deserve from Rose, exactly? In the first episode we see someone who is equally begrudging of Rose’s interest in the mysterious guy who saved her life…slightly more annoyed by it than thankful himself. He’s afraid of everything, and supremely, if understandably selfish. Even when she saves them both in the end, he’s more annoyed she didn’t just run than save the Doctor, and, by extension, the whole damn city. He doesn’t fight for her, not really. She kisses him on the cheek, not on the mouth; nor does he try to kiss her then—which again, to me shows the perfunctory nature of their relationship.

The relationship takes a bit of a tragic turn in “Aliens in London,” in that he was blamed for her disappearance. By that time, he’s had a year without her to realize how important she actually was to him. For Rose, their relationship is exactly where it was in “Rose.” That is, fundamentally broken. I don’t think any discussion of the Mickey/Rose relationship can ignore this very important shift in how they understand each other.

I’ve always had the impression their relationship was one of convenience more than one of any deep passion. They were best friends for years, literally since birth. They love each other very much, and for two single people it’s difficult not to translate that into some sort of romantic relationship. That doesn’t mean any sort of betrayal is forgivable, but I don’t think it’s anywhere near comparable to the Amy/Rory relationship bit, which I’ll get into a bit.

Even at the “End of World War Three,” Mickey doesn’t fight for Rose. The Doctor invites him along and he declines. He’s more worried Rose will see him as a coward than fighting for their relationship.

As far as I’m concerned, they break up in Boomtown. They try to give it another go, but it’s obvious in this case that Rose has moved on. Mickey is angry and hurt, and he’s right to be angry and hurt, but his decision not to go after her shows me that he’s also done. It’s also important to me that, though it’s clear that Rose is in love with the Doctor at this point, she hasn’t tried to initiate a relationship. Even Mickey was trying to date other people. in addition, I don’t know how her seriously subdued demeanor after she tries to find Mickey after the big earthquake thing doesn’t display some remorse on her part? Not to mention she actually apologizes to him several times in this episode.

Now, as I said, I’m convinced they break up in Boomtown, and I read this into all their interactions in Series Two. The complicated thing between them is that they love each other very much, as friends and even practically as family, but they are no longer in love with each other. That’s a really difficult relationship to navigate, and I can completely understand why Rose tries to tell the Doctor not to bring Mickey along in School Reunion (I also get why the Doctor pushes to bring him along, but that’s another post).

Once Mickey’s with the Doctor and Rose, what does he do? He challenges the Doctor about Rose. In “Rise of the Cybermen” he literally challenges the Doctor about not making a move on Rose. It’s not a challenge about who loves Rose more, because he’s going off to do his own thing. He’s challenging the Doctor to admit how he feels about Rose is different than any of his other companions.

When he leaves at the end of “Age of Steel,” then and only then does Rose really realize what Mickey realized in “Aliens in London;” just how huge a part of her life Mickey is. And it tears her up. So how is that not remorse? But in the end, both she and Mickey know where she belongs now. And by the time Rose would have been able to show some remorse, Mickey was gone.

It’s better for Mickey, too. Without using Rose as a crutch, a symbol of the unremarkable but easy life he could have had, Mickey unlocks his true potential. There was a hero hiding under there, he was just too afraid and comfortable to see it.

So, here’s the difference then: Rory and Amy were engaged when Amy made her move on the Doctor. She actively, physically seduces him without Rory having any idea that she’s even with the Doctor. Does Amy eventually grow up? Yes. But it literally takes him dying for her to even make up her mind—because in “Vampires in Venice” she’s still very strangely on the fence about Rory, and not particularly sympathetic to the jealousy and anger and betrayal he feels.

So, yes, in the end I think Rose and Mickey’s relationship was broken, but I don’t think that Rose betrayed Mickey. I DO think that Amy betrayed Rory. Understandable cold feet before the wedding? Perhaps. But in “The Eleventh Hour” she doesn’t even seem particularly head over heels for him, she barely wants to admit he’s her boyfriend. However, I also think Rory had a lot of growing up to do in S5, not that that makes it okay to be cheated on.

I do think she loved him, but I don’t even think she realized how much she loved him until she lost him…which is what makes the fact that she was going to marry him a bit troubling in the beginning. I also don’t think it helps that the writers kept playing the “Amy sounds like she’s admitting she’s in love with the Doctor but wait it’s really RORY LOLOL” thing over and over again even into S6.

Anyway. That’s that. And I also don’t know how either of these relationships have anything to do with the Doctor and Martha. While theirs was a troubled relationship, the circumstances were very different from the “established comfortable relationship breaking down” theme which M/R and R/A played on.

In short, Rose wasn’t perfect but I thought the Mickey/Rose breakdown was shown as difficult and realistic and I don’t believe it had any of the aspects of cheating/betrayal the early Rory/Amy story does.

385 notes
  

angsturbatecate:

Okay, I wanted to answer my two anons quite thoroughly, so I decided to do a bit of sexual meta. Meaning, I meta about sex because LOL that is what my life is.

First, I’m going to point out some contextual suggestions of dancing in the latter portion of S2. And then I’ll get to cast and crew quotes (especially those by RTD). I know my meta is very arousing, but do try to hold off on getting off until afterwards. So enjoy this slightly disjointed meta.

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Lovely and very appreciated, Ms. Cate.

I’m not sure about how I feel in the end, but regardless of if they did or didn’t, their relationship is absolutely intimate—if not in the physical sense, in the emotional and spiritual sense. Their flirting and hugging and handholding shows that love is more than sex without downplaying the importance of a physical connection/attraction.

Due to the demands and strictures of the medium, most television romance simplifies “love” to an unrealistic binary: the relationship is either all about sex or all about a “pure love” that is somehow disconnected from sex. That’s just not how it is for the majority of romantic relationships. The most successful relationships I know manage to combine friendship and sex in balance.

Davies, Davies, Davies. Brilliant man. Not that he’s the only writer, to be fair, but his influence is usually clear even when he’s not writing. I can’t think of many other television writers manage to understand the intricacy of human relationships (Whedon, perhaps…though sometimes he swings into the overly complicated and dramatic) — be it friendships, families, or romances. God, his portrayals of friends and family…that’s for another post.

I just want to highlight two things, because Rose and TenToo are the best:

Because, in the end, it isn’t about the words—it’s about whether or not he’s willing to make sacrifices for her, to give of himself in ways he never would have before—that’s why Rose chooses Ten II.

Yes yes yes yes yes. I also think it’s important to note that TenToo gives Rose a choice (“I could spend it with you, if you want.”) where Ten doesn’t (”And you made me better. Now you can do the same for him.”) Which is also an action that speaks louder that his words.

But, let’s admit it, words are nice, too.

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